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Originally posted by Emkayracing
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Absolutely. Well, that and most of the horses featuring at the top of Aussie lists are by our sires, or they are European cast-offs, or US breds.
Really? Takeover Target, Miss Andretti, Scenic Blast, Choisir et al? Hardly on a different level to our sprinters, all things considered.
BC is on a different level, but what will she be doing for racing in 5-10 years? Hmmmm
Oasis Dream for one slammed Choisir when they met back in 2003. With his black type pedigree it is no surprise that he has developed into a very useful sire, warranting a fee of around £85k.
Choisir stands for much less and has also produced much less in the way of quality. But should that come as a surprise, given that there is no 'depth' to his pedigree?
If the so-called 'domination' statement refers in any way to the above horses I would check the form book again. Perhaps the aim of the game is to run your horses until they have no option but to retire, in which case yes - you dominate us on that
Yes, but rather than do anything constructive about that, I guess the Aussies will continue to race with stock from European and US sires. It's not 'somewhere down the line' but first and second generation pedigrees. So knock the rest of the world's approach of race and retire, but then have no stallions of any worth to produce tomorrows stars?! Coolmore & Co must be raking it in!
Bred by an Arab, not from. http://www.pedigreequery.com/frankel3
Sire Galileo - Won English Derby 2001
Dam Kind - Raced at Listed level in UK '03-05
Another step back and Sadlers Wells, Urban Sea, Danehill & Rainbow Lake were all winners of European races. I gather that Australia had been discovered when they were each in training?
Yes - Prince Khalid Abdullah is an Arab and yes, Juddmonte do have a big UK operation. Good spot.
Frankel is one of any number of Group winners for Juddmonte. They'll keep winning races in the Northern hemisphere and the stallions will always be busy at Juddmonte Australia - as the breeders there look for some new stock to flag for a few years then throw aside.
This was actually worth watching. Several references were made to 'Quick returns' and so on by your man Moody. He also suggested there was a requirement to 'kick Pommie butt' - nice chap.
Really? Takeover Target, Miss Andretti, Scenic Blast, Choisir et al? Hardly on a different level to our sprinters, all things considered.
BC is on a different level, but what will she be doing for racing in 5-10 years? Hmmmm
Oasis Dream for one slammed Choisir when they met back in 2003. With his black type pedigree it is no surprise that he has developed into a very useful sire, warranting a fee of around £85k.
Choisir stands for much less and has also produced much less in the way of quality. But should that come as a surprise, given that there is no 'depth' to his pedigree?
If the so-called 'domination' statement refers in any way to the above horses I would check the form book again. Perhaps the aim of the game is to run your horses until they have no option but to retire, in which case yes - you dominate us on that
Yes, but rather than do anything constructive about that, I guess the Aussies will continue to race with stock from European and US sires. It's not 'somewhere down the line' but first and second generation pedigrees. So knock the rest of the world's approach of race and retire, but then have no stallions of any worth to produce tomorrows stars?! Coolmore & Co must be raking it in!
Bred by an Arab, not from. http://www.pedigreequery.com/frankel3
Sire Galileo - Won English Derby 2001
Dam Kind - Raced at Listed level in UK '03-05
Another step back and Sadlers Wells, Urban Sea, Danehill & Rainbow Lake were all winners of European races. I gather that Australia had been discovered when they were each in training?
Yes - Prince Khalid Abdullah is an Arab and yes, Juddmonte do have a big UK operation. Good spot.
Frankel is one of any number of Group winners for Juddmonte. They'll keep winning races in the Northern hemisphere and the stallions will always be busy at Juddmonte Australia - as the breeders there look for some new stock to flag for a few years then throw aside.
This was actually worth watching. Several references were made to 'Quick returns' and so on by your man Moody. He also suggested there was a requirement to 'kick Pommie butt' - nice chap.
Spin it all you like, there is no argument to win considering the whole breed that is the thoroughbred originated in England, through breeding 3 Arab stallions, with the local mares.
Apart from that, was a good read that Frankel pedigree. I notice that both the dam and sire are USA horses.
Lets see. Generations.
1st generation Irish.
2 75% USA
3 7/8 North American
4 1/16 GB
5 75% non British.......
Apart from all of that, this whole thing is about racehorses. It isn't about profitable horses over their history. It is about horses, and their racing performances.
If your argument that Frankel is the greatest racehorse in history because of his bloodlines, then we will never get anywhere, because in my opinion, a racehorse can only be compared to another racehorse by their racing. That is what they are, that is what we are talking about.
I guarantee you right now, if Frankel retired, there would never be a movie made about him, or a book. It is a completely uninspiring story of a good horse, well great horse, wrapped up in cotton wool trying to build a stud fee by racing in small time races, against the least opposition possible, avoiding all risks, at all costs. Meanwhile, the public all lap it up because he is unbeaten and has won some small prize events named after "royalty".....
So forget about stud fees. Forget about the fact that every racehorse on the planet has a UK part to their breeding. Forget about comparing him with horses that have won 5 races and in the hall of fame. And think about this and ask yourself this.
As a racehorse, is it impressive to beat the same horses, over the same distance, for very few races, never racing in a race that isn't set up for you?
Is Frankel the best RACEHORSE with the most impressive resume going around now? Forget about history, NOW.
The simple answer is no, he cannot possibly be. He has only won 11 races, over minimum opposition, and just over 1.2 mil pounds in prize money.
How in ****, can he possibly be the most impressive race horse in the history of the sport?
He can't.
Yes, his last race was super impressive as a spectacle. But the reality is, Excelabration, just a plodder, went way too early, trying something bold, and fell in a big hole. Excelebration easily had the rest of the field covered, which says loads for the quality of the field.
Forget about what I would do, what I think, Excelebration, races 100% there, and the margin cuts back by 3 lengths. Yes, would still have been impressive, but look at the race. Frankel had his stable mate set the speed for him. Just before he let go, Frankel was boxed in. 2 horses directly beside him. Here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYzOb8kZTJw
Look at the 55 second mark and the position of the horses. Lead horse, 2 horses 3/4 length behind, directly beside, Frankel directly behind leader, in 4th.
His pace maker then pushes across to the side pushing one of them out of the way and lets him out giving him all the space he needs.
That is not 1 horse racing for himself. That is a team race. Simple as that. As impressive as the victory was, it was nothing more than a team race. Even forgetting about the team, horses do that every day.
So forgetting about everything but the races that this horse has been in, you must be out of your mind to consider this horse the best ever. It is absolutely ridiculous. He very well may not be the best in the world right now, let alone never.
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