Possible to hedge out for equal p/l for single stake/last stake used?

[jackhulk]

Hello

I'm wondering if it's possible to hedge out for equal p/l on last stake used only?

For example, doing this manually.....

Bet 1) Back selection at 2 for £10
£10 if selection wins, -£10 if loses.

Bet 2) Lay same selection at 1.80 for £10
£2 if selection wins, £0 if loses.

Bet 3) Hedge out at 1.70 for £10.59. This gives -£0.59 loss across the board for failed lay bet.
£9.41 if selection wins, -£10.59 if loses.

Is there an options within the toy so the back stake in bet 3 is calculated and hedged equally automatically please?

Thank you

[doubleback]

That figure of £10.59 is not quite right ...

(£10 x 2.00) - (£10 x 1.80) = £2

£2 / 1.70 = £1.18

There's no need to work it out, just press the hedge button ...

You could also have hedged on the second bet ...

(£10 x 2.00) / 1.80 = £11.11 ... equal green of £1.11 ...

[jackhulk]

I know it's a bit wing wang (as I like to call it) but my figures are correct.

Your figures are correct IF I wanted to use second bet to hedge (so there is no third bet), but second bet is a straight lay. In the example, that lay lost and I then want to hedge out bet 2 for equal loss, not taking into account bet 1. In effect I want the toy to ignore bet 1 and hedge just the last bet, which in this instances would give a loss of £0.59.

[doubleback]

If you backed £10 at 2.00, layed £10 at 1.80, you would be green ...

£2 if it wins, £0 if it loses ...

To hedge the £2 (bet 3) ...

Lay £2 / 1.70 = £1.18 ...

If you layed £10.59, you'd be opening up a new position ...

[jackhulk]

That's correct, new position as above, £9.41 if selection wins, -£10.59 if loses.

Figures are sound, just wondering if the toy can hedge only taking in to account last bet made, so I wouldn't have to manually calculate the lay stake of £10.59 seen in bet 3?

[doubleback]

I see what you're doing now ... Firstly, why not just back/lay £10 at 2.00, you'd win or lose a tenner, which is pretty much the same as £9.41 / -£10.59 ... it seems a convoluted way of placing a straight bet to me ... Alternatively, if you used the liability mode to place your back bet at 2.00 and layed (in liability mode again) at 1.70, that would make you green on all the other selections and leave you with no liability ... it's like the inverse of using stake mode and leaving the green on the selection you're trading without hedging ...

[jackhulk]

Just a feature I need. Mr Geek, is this possible please?

[doubleback]

Those figures still look a bit wonky, rather than wing wang!


Back £10 at 2.00 = £10 profit

Lay £10 at 1.80 = £8 liability

Lay £10.59 at 1.70 = £7.41 liability


If the horse wins, you have to payout liability of (£8 + £7.41) = £15.41

and you win £10, leaving you down overall -£5.41


If the horse loses, the Lay bets win £20.59, and your Back bet loses £10

giving a total profit of £10.59


So how do you arrive at £9.41 if selection wins, -£10.59 if loses?

[custard]

At the time of writing this post, the thread has been viewed 111 times. All have moved on without comment, probably because they have no idea of what it is all about.

Does anybody understand it, please ? If so, an explanation, written on a postcard, would come in handy.

[lcredd]

I've just re-read it and I kind of understand what jackhulk is trying to do. I don't think The Toy has that feature. It does seem an over-complicated way to bet/trade.

[doubleback]

I don't think The Toy has that feature ...

I think you might be right ...

[jackhulk]

Those figures still look a bit wonky, rather than wing wang!


Back £10 at 2.00 = £10 profit

Lay £10 at 1.80 = £8 liability

Lay £10.59 at 1.70 = £7.41 liability


If the horse wins, you have to payout liability of (£8 + £7.41) = £15.41

and you win £10, leaving you down overall -£5.41


If the horse loses, the Lay bets win £20.59, and your Back bet loses £10

giving a total profit of £10.59


So how do you arrive at £9.41 if selection wins, -£10.59 if loses?

Back for more doubleback, and so early in the morning. Your mistaking bet 3 as a lay bet, but it's a hedge of bet 2 so it's backing 1.70 at £10.59.

If you follow the example exactly the figures are correct. I know it's confusing and not concerned if it's correct/incorrect way to trade (it's just an example), just wondering if it's possible to hedge p/l based on last bet only. By the looks of things, it's not possible, but hopefully Mr Geek can have the final word?

[doubleback]

Indeed, the early worm catches the bird ...

I totally understand what you're saying now; make bets 2 & 3 hedge independently of bet juan ...

There isn't a function to do what you ask and I know you want confirmation from the man himself, but if you outlined the merits of a function, detailing how the Toy would differentiate between the bets and how you would turn the function on/off, then perhaps TG will be all ears. He has implemented many things asked for by traders in the past, but I fear what you are asking for may, if implemented, be more complex to use than to do it manually ...

[jackhulk]

I totally understand what you're saying now; make bets 2 & 3 hedge independently of bet juan ...

If I put it like that in the first place, it would have made much more sense to everyone!

Thanks doubleback, think I'll do as you say and make a request for this feature in suggestion forum.

Shouldn't be to difficult to implement as the maths is pretty straight forward. The Toy could differentiate between the bets by taking the last bet made (which will be time stamped) and hedging that alone.

I have a spreadsheet set up already that hedges in the way required, but then of course I have to take the back stake figure and enter manually into the Toy. Problem with that is that by the time that's done, prices may have changed and so figures will be off. This wouldn't be a problem with one click independent hedge, based solely on last bet made.

Alternatively is it possible to link the Toy to Excel yet?

[custard]

I still do not fully understand. However, just because The Toy gives a figure doesn't mean to say that you will actually achieve your desired outcome. I "greened" four times today with The Toy in the Zenit St Peter game before I was matched fully. There are three factors which must be present :

(i) the trading price must be suitable,

(ii) the amount to place the bet must be available as a match,

(iii) it needs to win the race to be matched against other traders.

The option you require would in no way guarantee your desired bet being placed. I had to cancel and place bets three times today before I was out of the market. Sometimes the market is bloody awkward and no amount of software additions can get it to behave as we would like it to.