Oh dear they now they want 60% of our winnings :(

[Temujin]

Yeah, you don't need to be one of their best to have lifetime profits 250k plus. At some point every successful punter will get to that mark. This is absolute rubbish.
Why have a commission reduction if all it does is get offset by the PC anyway? Yeah, you save 100 bucks in commission because of your rate for the week, but pay us 500 please.

If they wish to do this to people, it should be based on the tax scale, and only be getting extreme after you have actually made money for the year, not base it on lifetime. That is ridiculous.

[Keefter]

Yeah, you don't need to be one of their best to have lifetime profits 250k plus. At some point every successful punter will get to that mark. This is absolute rubbish.
Why have a commission reduction if all it does is get offset by the PC anyway? Yeah, you save 100 bucks in commission because of your rate for the week, but pay us 500 please.

If they wish to do this to people, it should be based on the tax scale, and only be getting extreme after you have actually made money for the year, not base it on lifetime. That is ridiculous.

What astounds me Temujin is that the likes of us will go from having never qualified to pay the 20% charge to suddenly being liable for between 40 and 60%! I have a little way to go but that 250k will happen and when it does there will be no hiding place.

[Temujin]

More important question for me is: Will Temujin be affected with this ?

At this stage I haven't been contacted, and the link to check didn't work for me, so I guess at this point it looks like I still generate enough commission to cover it.
I have requested a statement to check just how close I am to it. I think from memory my last one was around 50% generated.. But that has come down from 1447.70% on my first check :P


And for everybody that is talking about the 250k, don't forget this is just another tier to the PC. Current payers that don't yet qualify for the next tier will still be covering the 20%.

[pdonald]

I think this is aimed at bookies who lay off their liability on Betfair: they never lose, they've surely made much more than 250k and they pay very little comission.

[Temujin]

Bookmakers never lose on BF? If they are offloading to offset their books to a more respectable level, then it would make sense that they wouldn't even be hit by this. Not sure of the rules bookmakers have to go by. Over here, I don't think they are even allowed to, or didn't use to be?

If you make a living trading BF price moves, you WILL be affected by this. Lifetime profits is just that. If you don't make 250k over a few years, even 10, then you aren't really making a living anyway.

[Paolo]

Sadly not, http://community.betfair.com/general...premium-charge

Trouble is the Betfair PR accounts will now go into overdrive and we'll have allsorts of people praising Betfair for bringing it in. It was suprising how easy they managed to con the masses into thinking PC was a good idea despite no one other than Betfair benefitting from it. I imagine with one of the criteria being £250K net profits they'll have a lot easier time selling it to the masses now.

Time to bow out of PC threads and look at any possible ways to avoid or reduce it for now

I think now popularity of other betting exchanges will be rising. Betfair dig their grave. Betfair have the largest comission of all betting exchanges 5%, and they make more and more. Do they want to be richer(as we)?

[Temujin]

I am 47.7%, but the way I bet that doesn't leave me much room to move.
For example last week was @ 1.76%, Max possible Premium Charge 1191 pounds, but that is still 20%, 2382 pounds if it were at 40%....

Needless to say, I need to monitor what is happening, as a couple of "good" weeks, and shit will hit the fan, as will my computer, tv, monitors.....
The last 2 years, the P/L is 220% of the previous totals combined, and the total charges is 75% of all previous, so obviously I am on a path down which will put me there. The last 2 years, sitting on 30% generated commission, so a matter of time at this current rate.

For now though, I will keep calm and know that I have to evolve, adapt and survive as I have been doing for the best part of a decade...

[Temujin]

Who are they kidding though, the more you earn, the more you should pay to combat the costs involved with you winning? Doesn't cost them any more for me to bet 1k than somebody else betting 2 bucks. Have paid them over 100k dollars already, I doubt my part of their costs isn't well and truly covered by that.

****ers...... evil

[Paolo]

Who are they kidding though, the more you earn, the more you should pay to combat the costs involved with you winning? Doesn't cost them any more for me to bet 1k than somebody else betting 2 bucks. Have paid them over 100k dollars already, I doubt my part of their costs isn't well and truly covered by that.

****ers...... evil

This is start of the end Betfair Empire.

[jibiko]

just some random thoughts

Sad days .
P.C.2 introduced.

I was expecting an increase in PC from 20-25% to 30-35%,
sooner or later.
As usual, in my case, it came sooner and harder than I was expecting.

There is no real reaction from traders,
in things that are of absolute importance to them,
so Betfair has an easy way to pass whatever they want
(see Transaction Charges, Data Request Charges, Premium Charges, Cross Matching, Bet Submit Delay, etc...).

As I see it, traders don't react for three reasons:
- ignorance,
- fear,
- apathy.

Traders are acting as units.
(The sad exception is when they want to milk noobz.
It's the only time you will see them cooperate, to build something).
As long as traders act as units they are making Betfair's life easier.
Traders have to organize in some sort of movement, union, whateva, and start ACTING & REACTING.
Better late, than never.
UK traders have the first role in this.
The rest will just follow.

I have a feeling for a long time now, that Betfair don't want traders.
Maybe they wanted them in the beginning (if they did) but
I think they don't want them for a long time now.
Betfair and their liquidity providing companies partners
can and want to trade the markets on their own.
Every new law that Betfair has passed in the last few years
has a direct or indirect impact to traders and not backers or layers.
They don't even recognize traders as such.
There is not such a word in their vocabulary.
They are killing traders little by little.

The irony of it?

Betdaq lately announced their new API Commission Scheme,
(see http://www.geekstoy.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5594)
which seems to have traders in mind
(Don't start jumping on me on this.
The real reason is to attract more liquidity,
but it seems to favor traders in a way)
and what betfair respond?

BOOM!!! P.C.2 60% bitches...Because I am THE PIMP.


The philosophy of this company can be seen in their moves.
See this year's moves:

March - Betfair move to Gibraltar.
May - BACKGAMMON HAS ARRIVED ON BETFAIR!
(it's an email I got on May from them, just saw it).
June - Betfair Poker reduced the 10 seats per table to 9.
(If you are not familiar with poker, this move makes the game
more aggressive & faster and generates more commission for them).
June - P.C.2 introduction.


...from another point of view...

What is Betfair?

Betfair is the stock exchange of the poor, the working class.

The middle & upper class have NYSE, NASDAQ, Tokyo, London, Shangai.
The working class can't even dip their feet in there.
The equivalent to them is Betfair.
Everyone knows a thing or two about sports.
The working class can rise and do something to get out of shit.
Naaa, not good. Keep them in da shit.
Who will work for us?
We can't all have the money.
Who will suffer?

It's easier to be a trader, than a backer or layer, for them,
for one simple reason:
CAPITAL.
In general, you need big banks in backing or laying to make it pay.
In trading you can do with less.
KILL this option.


In conclusion, I think,
a trader can only expect worse things for him,
in one way or another,
from this company,
as years go by.



____________
Bunkies are bunkies.

[Traderos]

Whe should ask where is the limit?

Will they increase normal premium charges to 30% in next year?
Will they make third tier of 80% for those who made 1M£ lifetime profit?

Now I see that the limits don't exists for them ...

They have compeletely lost their minnds

Now the new PC will affect 0.1% of users, but it'll be still increasing drastically in the next few years. Additionally increase commition % condition to 40% is f***ng insane too

[KOTBIIAJIbTO]

Betfair are trying to act like Robin Hood. The only difference is that while robbing the rich he gave money to the poor and didn't keep it to himself

I can imagine how this 60% rate came to their minds...

[joneyyy1981]

betfair has now got cancer.. and it will be terminal i think.

[bettrader]

Betfair to become a sports book.

According to Betfair's recent financial report at http://corporate.betfair.com/~/media...011-06-29.pdf?

"Second, we will extend the number of markets we offer to customers. We are developing an integrated Exchange and sportsbook product that will allow us to provide more in-play markets as well as giving customers guaranteed execution in less liquid markets." So maybe Betfair is raising the premium charge to eliminate competition.

[joneyyy1981]

so how would that work... more commision = more people legging it to betdaq..