Clint - football trade

[custard]

The Ladyboys were far more entertaining and I picked the winner of the beauty contest held in my old home town of Pattaya.

[1980hodgy]

at least someone has had a winner tonight ;-)

[bingo little]

Clint

Since I was mentioned by name in the discussion of the strategy called The Clint (to the poster who said that is a stupid name, well, er, yes it is. But better than "Strategy No: 19 I`d say) I would like to reply to the general consensus that feels it has no merit....waste of time....doesn`t work, etc.
Any trading strategy has to have clearly defined entry & exit points (based on correct available odds). The Clint strategy, as with the majority of strats I & my partner over at xxxxxx.eu have created work on a principle of taking insurance as a way to cover some or all potential losses. This of course has the effect of reducing profits but also of minimising losses.
As with any gambling/trading approach, the long term view must be taken into account as no system/plan will give you 100% successful return. In our case if we generally look to a 20% ROI or conversely a maximum 20% loss, we need to be right 6 out of 10 times to be in profit.
The key to these strategies is to keep as best as possible to these P/L percentage guidelines.
Managing two markets in one trade is not that complicated (in response to one poster who felt that it would confuse a newbie). What is difficult is managing your position in a trade and that is what trading is all about. It is what differentiates it from pure gambling.
Taking a pre match view that there will be goals or few goals is a punt. What you do in-play if your subjective view is wrong (and the trade is therefore going against you) is how you make your profit or not. And that is called trading.
What strategies you use or develop yourself have as much to do with your own "style", what you are comfortable with, as with finding edges and value in prices. There are some strategies in our portfolio that I myself don`t like or use. They don`t suit my style of trading.
So before you rush in to consign a strategy to the dustbin, test it out over a period of time and learn to accept that it might be suitable for a particular kind of trader but not others. What kind of trader are you? Risk averse? Protect your bank at all costs? Let it run and hope for goal? Trade just one market with no insurance (that`s a gambler isn`t it?)?

[custard]

Could you please explain how this strategy can provide its user with any advantage ? Any bets which are mutually exclusive in terms of winning seem to be a waste of time. In this world we get what we pay for. Clint seems to guarantee at least one losing bet. Am I wrong, please ?

[Cran]

The Clint strategy, as with the majority of strats I & my partner over at xxxxxx.eu have created work on a principle of taking insurance as a way to cover some or all potential losses. This of course has the effect of reducing profits but also of minimising losses.

Given that there is no margin in related markets these days, hedging in this way is pointless and if you think you need to do this then your stake/liability is too high.

A bet/trade has value or it doesn't... smoke and mirrors won't change that...

They will cloud the facts and make it easier for you to adjust the results to make it seem like you made a profit when you didn't...

[Cran]

Trade just one market with no insurance (that`s a gambler isn`t it?)?

It's all gambling, the key is to limit your liability by staking correctly.

over staking and then hedging some of it by betting against yourself in another market is pointless.

[bingo little]

Could you please explain how this strategy can provide its user with any advantage ? Any bets which are mutually exclusive in terms of winning seem to be a waste of time. In this world we get what we pay for. Clint seems to guarantee at least one losing bet. Am I wrong, please ?

You are correct Custard - you will lose on one market if you win on the other.
I should have explained in my previous post that staking is also key to this (and any other strategy really).
The Clint essentially favours goals so the stakes are weighted towards more profit if the Over 2.5 market wins. The "insurance" on U1.5 is staked as to losing you around 20% on the overall trade. To help recover from this potential loss, you have a few choices in-play.
1) Scalping: either 0-0 or Under1.5
2) If 0-0 at HT top up on U1.5 and/or LAY 1-1

The point is you are managing your position in-play dependent on an number of scenarios. You should know pre match what these "good" & "bad" scenarios are.....what are you likely dangers scores, when is the best timing for a first goal or equaliser, etc

I quote you: "Any bets which are mutually exclusive in terms of winning seem to be a waste of time. In this world we get what we pay for."
Well, yes it is a waste of time if your overall trading plan (i.e long term and sticking rigidly to it) is constantly changing.
Your comment seems to belong more in the realm of straight punting surely?
Which is fine if you have developed your own set of rules re:edge/value,etc.
I can only repeat the point that this "insurance" principle is one way of trading. Using two or three different markets are therefore mutually inclusive to the trade as a whole.
As regards to "in this world we get what we pay for" then car insurance neatly encapsulates that remark. Third Party only: cheap but risky. Third part/Fire & Theft: More expensive and some cover. Fully Comprehensive: Very expensive and peace of mind

[custard]

I have read what you say but cannot agree with you. I can recall an occasion when a set of tipsters recommended nine bets in a football game, all of which lost. Nevertheless, they claimed a profit as they said that their tenth bet was a winner. I suppose losses can be chased and even at the end of a game, if a stake is large enough, profits can be made.

As one of the critics of Clint I was honour bound to stand up and justify what I had said before. I am sure that others who believe that the strategy is poor will do the same.

I restate that I think anybody who pays money for strategies or any form of tipping service is misguided, but if that's what they want to do, who am I to tell them to desist ? Geek has made it clear that such things are not to be promoted here and it seems that he and I share some common opinions.

[1980hodgy]

Many thanks

Since I was mentioned by name in the discussion of the strategy called The Clint (to the poster who said that is a stupid name, well, er, yes it is. But better than "Strategy No: 19 I`d say) I would like to reply to the general consensus that feels it has no merit....waste of time....doesn`t work, etc.
Any trading strategy has to have clearly defined entry & exit points (based on correct available odds). The Clint strategy, as with the majority of strats I & my partner over at xxxxxx.eu have created work on a principle of taking insurance as a way to cover some or all potential losses. This of course has the effect of reducing profits but also of minimising losses.
As with any gambling/trading approach, the long term view must be taken into account as no system/plan will give you 100% successful return. In our case if we generally look to a 20% ROI or conversely a maximum 20% loss, we need to be right 6 out of 10 times to be in profit.
The key to these strategies is to keep as best as possible to these P/L percentage guidelines.
Managing two markets in one trade is not that complicated (in response to one poster who felt that it would confuse a newbie). What is difficult is managing your position in a trade and that is what trading is all about. It is what differentiates it from pure gambling.
Taking a pre match view that there will be goals or few goals is a punt. What you do in-play if your subjective view is wrong (and the trade is therefore going against you) is how you make your profit or not. And that is called trading.
What strategies you use or develop yourself have as much to do with your own "style", what you are comfortable with, as with finding edges and value in prices. There are some strategies in our portfolio that I myself don`t like or use. They don`t suit my style of trading.
So before you rush in to consign a strategy to the dustbin, test it out over a period of time and learn to accept that it might be suitable for a particular kind of trader but not others. What kind of trader are you? Risk averse? Protect your bank at all costs? Let it run and hope for goal? Trade just one market with no insurance (that`s a gambler isn`t it?)?

Bingo

I was the originator of the original post before signing up to your site, i think for those that are members of the site understand why we have insurance on different markets.

Being part of the community od the trading football website i have learnt alot and im looking forward to trading during the new season.

Id forgot about this original post otherwise Id have commented back to rubbish a few comments.

again trading is about protecting the bank as well as trying to get that all important green screen.

With the complete lack of decent football I still have a small profit even after the sign up fee, so for those who doubt the strategies I suggest actually using them before rubbishing them.

[Cran]

Bingo

I was the originator of the original post before signing up to your site, i think for those that are members of the site understand why we have insurance on different markets.

Being part of the community od the trading football website i have learnt alot and im looking forward to trading during the new season.

Id forgot about this original post otherwise Id have commented back to rubbish a few comments.

again trading is about protecting the bank as well as trying to get that all important green screen.

With the complete lack of decent football I still have a small profit even after the sign up fee, so for those who doubt the strategies I suggest actually using them before rubbishing them.

Yeah, you're right... what do I know...

Apologies for trying to put some facts into a thread...

[custard]

With the complete lack of decent football I still have a small profit even after the sign up fee, so for those who doubt the strategies I suggest actually using them before rubbishing them.

My granny used to say that it is not necessary to stick one's finger in the fire to realise that one will be burned. I have sufficient faith in the other contributors to this forum to know that they are capable of assessing strategies without using them. I will never pay a penny for anybody else's strategies. It's all down to freedom of choice, isn't it ?

[ForeTwo]

Bingo do you make more money from trading or from your members subs?

Speaking hypothetically, if I had a membership site and didn't have an edge it would be in my interest to hedge risk across markets and keep the members inevitable death a slow one....

[bingo little]

I have read what you say but cannot agree with you. I can recall an occasion when a set of tipsters recommended nine bets in a football game, all of which lost. Nevertheless, they claimed a profit as they said that their tenth bet was a winner. I suppose losses can be chased and even at the end of a game, if a stake is large enough, profits can be made.

As one of the critics of Clint I was honour bound to stand up and justify what I had said before. I am sure that others who believe that the strategy is poor will do the same.

I restate that I think anybody who pays money for strategies or any form of tipping service is misguided, but if that's what they want to do, who am I to tell them to desist ? Geek has made it clear that such things are not to be promoted here and it seems that he and I share some common opinions.

I suppose we are all tipsters in one guise or another but that moniker should be applied more to those who are strictly "set & go" merchants. I have explained in a previous post what my trading style & approach is.

Naturally you want to defend your initial stance on this issue. To say flatly it is a poor strategy would oblige me to ask you slightly embarassing questions like how often have you tested it. Once? Over a whole season? What precise match selection criteria have you applied? Have you actually traded it in-play?

I sense that your real beef is the problematic area of punters/mugs paying for advice. The service I run (and I`m not spamming......The Geek knows me well enough after years of us both being in this trading lark) does offer training to those wanting to acquire a new skill. If what I provide means that people new to Betfair lose less money than if they didn`t have the advantage of professional support then I`m glad to be of service. I am, on this rare occasion, replying to the common trait found on forums of posters passing judgment without considering impartially other facts in the matter. You have a point of view. I am defending mine to the best of my ability.

The nine goal tipster! I`ve done that! Backed Chelsea 2-0/3-0/3-1/AUQ...
and the whole trade has gone tits up as Sunderland go into the HT break 0-3 up! Shit happens sometimes

[Cran]

Naturally you want to defend your initial stance on this issue. To say flatly it is a poor strategy would oblige me to ask you slightly embarassing questions like how often have you tested it

My question to you is why, if it is a good strategy does it need anything other than proper staking?

why does a good strategy need ineffective insurance? That is the issue, not the strategy...

[bingo little]

Bingo do you make more money from trading or from your members subs?

Speaking hypothetically, if I had a membership site and didn't have an edge it would be in my interest to hedge risk across markets and keep the members inevitable death a slow one....

Nicely put!
I have been trading full time since 2004. It is a solitary profession and while I won`t place claims for being the most altruistic man on this planet I do enjoy the atmosphere of a trading community by running a live chatroom and offering help and advice. As Custard rightly says, it is a personal choice if people want to pay for that support or not.
I cannot deny that the placing of my bets in-play, then posting the advice in the chat room, means a 10 second delay at times; I get the best prices but I don`t whack £000s, on 1-1 for example, to force the price down.
I don`t need or want to. I`m generally speaking a better trader than them, so my acquired skill of trading is my edge