Gain Experience

[seanmould14]

Hi, im Darren, been trading the pre race for 2 weeks now, very much a newbie. Been having mixed results due to the usual trading clichés. This diary im going to run for a month, and im not really looking to hit any targets as such, im just going to trade as many different markets as possible, well, as much as work and family allow anyway.
Im going to be using £10 stakes for odds on, £5 for 2-5 and £2 for 5+, and im hoping to get as much knowledge as possible and see where im at after a month. I'll post P/L every day i trade and talk about the days trading.
Thanks
Darren.

[milivoje]

good luck!

[custard]

Lots of strange people in South Wales, Darren. Some of the weirdest trade Betfair.:Thumbs

[seanmould14]

Bank and staking

My starting bank will be £100 by the way. Also, ive been looking at using the Book profit, but because of my low bank any higher odds bets will be placed under £2.
Probably a silly question but, as i understand Betfair don't allow bets under £2. Now if i place a Back bet at £1 and the Hedge with a Lay Bet at £1, do Betfair class this as 1 or 2 bets. Id say 2, and if that's the case then Book staking will be no use to me.
Thanks
Darren.

[custard]

Minimum has to be £ 2. Smaller bets can be made but ordinarily are a result of hedging. Placing bets which are below the limit will get you into trouble with Betfair if you do it too often. What Valley are you in ?

[seanmould14]

Im living in llanelli I aint no valley boy! lol , what about you mate?

[custard]

I'm a genuine Taff and live in the real capital of Wales, Merthyr Tydfil, a mile away from the Beacons National Park. I spent a lot of time in your part of the world fishing Cefn Sidan.

[seanmould14]

Haha, yes its very nice down cefn sidan. Do you do this full time?

[custard]

Haha, yes its very nice down cefn sidan. Do you do this full time?

No, I take my gambling/trading very seriously and have studied it but it is a hobby. The only way to make money over a lifetime is to work for it. Betfair came into being "all of a sudden" and could disappear just as quickly as many in other European countries have found out. Do not trade with money you cannot afford to lose and do not be led astray by promises of quick money made to you by charlatans. There are loads of "cockroaches" in the trading world. ( Do a search of the forum for " jibiko " and read some of his stuff. He was straight and said things as they were and are. )

[seanmould14]

Yes, i agree completely, ive only been at this 2 weeks, but i dont have any illusions or im not naive enough to think anything is THAT easy. I have a job and a family, this is something ive found that i enjoy doing and if i can make a few extra quid great, if not ill have learned something. My motto is a bit of a paradox because i like to just go with the flow and see where it takes me, but that doesn't mean im reckless or don't have any influence where im going!

[seanmould14]

Not the best start

This could be one of the shortest diaries in Geeks Toy history ! Lost 11 of 17 markets, didnt stay with my staking plan. I will keep going though, ive got a sense of humour so each time i seen what i believed was a signal and put my bet in, it went the other way. Also im going backwards not forwards with my performance. It seems the more i try to study the market the worse i become!!

Down £12.02

Market Start time Settled date Profit/loss (GBP)

Horse Racing / Redc 19th May : 1m Hcap 19-May-14 16:50 19-May-14 16:54 -2.48
Horse Racing / Towc 19th May : 2m6f Nov Chs 19-May-14 16:40 19-May-14 16:47 0.18
Horse Racing / Sthl 19th May : 6f Hcap 19-May-14 16:30 19-May-14 16:32 1.04
Horse Racing / Redc 19th May : 5f Hcap 19-May-14 16:20 19-May-14 16:26 -0.59
Horse Racing / Towc 19th May : 2m3f Hcap Hrd 19-May-14 16:10 19-May-14 16:16 -3.04
Horse Racing / Sthl 19th May : 6f Hcap 19-May-14 16:00 19-May-14 16:02 -0.57
Horse Racing / Redc 19th May : 7f Mdn Stks 19-May-14 15:50 19-May-14 15:57 0.45
Horse Racing / Towc 19th May : 3m Hcap Chs 19-May-14 15:40 19-May-14 15:47 -5.74
Horse Racing / Sthl 19th May : 1m3f Hcap 19-May-14 15:30 19-May-14 15:33 0.06
Horse Racing / Redc 19th May : 5f Hcap 19-May-14 15:20 19-May-14 15:24 1.82
Horse Racing / Towc 19th May : 2m Claim Hrd 19-May-14 15:10 19-May-14 15:15 -0.51
Horse Racing / Sthl 19th May : 5f Mdn Stks 19-May-14 15:00 19-May-14 15:02 1.13
Horse Racing / Redc 19th May : 5f Hcap 19-May-14 14:50 19-May-14 14:53 -0.56
Horse Racing / Towc 19th May : 2m Hcap Chs 19-May-14 14:40 19-May-14 14:45 -0.69
Horse Racing / Sthl 19th May : 1m6f Claim Stks 19-May-14 14:30 19-May-14 14:34 -0.85
Horse Racing / Redc 19th May : 6f Mdn Stks 19-May-14 14:20 19-May-14 14:23 -0.48
Horse Racing / Towc 19th May : 2m3f Mdn Hrd 19-May-14 14:10 19-May-14 14:17 -1.19

[seanmould14]

Okay, so after yesterdays disaster in terms of bank preservation and loses, ive taken a step back and looked upon it positively. Ive basically looked at what ive learned from yesterday. Upto now ive been trading purely for experience and have had no Trading plan whatsoever, at least not one that ive documented.

This was all well and good in terms of just getting experience, but i found that by having no definitions of any exit points, proper staking strategy, ect, it would lead to me blowing my bank in no time, thus affecting the amount of experience i need to get, as it is very likely that i'd have no money left to trade quite soon.
Today im going to try and follow my current plan, which is 2 x A4's at the moment, and if that means 20 small loses then ill take that and look to tweak thing from there.

Thanks
Darren

[custard]

What is "a signal", please, Darren ? Is your signal the same as everybody else's ? Are you looking at graphs ?

[seanmould14]

Hi Custard, i do look at a couple of graphs, but my 'signals' were patterns that i thought i had identified as happening more than not. My problem is that when i believe i get an opportunity to enter i get so zoned in on the odds of my trade that i become oblivious to what's going on around me and inevitably the trade goes against me.

Im just starting with this and im making the obvious mistakes, take today for example, i added to losing trades, and i am concious that there is a side of me that can only accept im wrong when its too late! I can see as well that ive got a problem in that i struggle to Lay for some reason and pay more attention to the Back side of the ladder.

Onto today, i was happier with my money management and staking for sure. I still left a couple of loses run too long though. Im starting to see the difference in price movements in high volume markets to low, i also noticed when the Real money was entering the market and held off with my trades till then. A lot of the time today i set myself up to scalp and because of my 'tunnel vision' when the price moved out i got caught.

Down £1.41 today, a vast improvement on yesterday!

Horse Racing: -£1.41 Total P&L: -£1.41

Horse Racing Showing 1 - 20 of 22 markets
Market Start time Settled date Profit/loss (£)
Horse Racing / Yarm 20th May : 7f Mdn Stks 20-May-14 17:30 20-May-14 17:38 0.14
Horse Racing / Newc 20th May : 1m Hcap 20-May-14 17:20 20-May-14 17:24 0.15
Horse Racing / Bath 20th May : 1m5f Hcap 20-May-14 17:10 20-May-14 17:13 0.31
Horse Racing / Nott 20th May : 5f Hcap 20-May-14 17:00 20-May-14 17:02 0.07
Horse Racing / Newc 20th May : 7f Hcap 20-May-14 16:50 20-May-14 16:53 -0.54
Horse Racing / Bath 20th May : 1m2f Mdn Stks 20-May-14 16:40 20-May-14 16:44 0.01
Horse Racing / Nott 20th May : 1m Class Stks 20-May-14 16:30 20-May-14 16:34 0.17
Horse Racing / Newc 20th May : 2m Hcap 20-May-14 16:20 20-May-14 16:27 0.11
Horse Racing / Bath 20th May : 1m2f Hcap 20-May-14 16:10 20-May-14 16:13 -0.47
Horse Racing / Nott 20th May : 1m Mdn Stks 20-May-14 16:00 20-May-14 16:04 0.10
Horse Racing / Newc 20th May : 1m2f Hcap 20-May-14 15:50 20-May-14 15:53 -0.05
Horse Racing / Bath 20th May : 1m Hcap 20-May-14 15:40 20-May-14 15:44 -0.65
Horse Racing / Nott 20th May : 1m2f Hcap 20-May-14 15:30 20-May-14 15:33 -0.14
Horse Racing / Newc 20th May : 1m2f Mdn Stks 20-May-14 15:20 20-May-14 15:25 0.00
Horse Racing / Bath 20th May : 1m Hcap 20-May-14 15:10 20-May-14 15:12 0.05
Horse Racing / Nott 20th May : 2m Hcap 20-May-14 15:00 20-May-14 15:05 0.04
Horse Racing / Newc 20th May : 5f Hcap 20-May-14 14:50 20-May-14 14:56 0.03
Horse Racing / Bath 20th May : 6f Hcap 20-May-14 14:40 20-May-14 14:44 -0.23
Horse Racing / Nott 20th May : 6f Hcap 20-May-14 14:30 20-May-14 14:34 0.08
Horse Racing / Newc 20th May : 5f Mdn Stks 20-May-14 14:20 20-May-14 14:22 -0.19
Horse Racing / Bath 20th May : 6f Mdn Stks 20-May-14 14:10 20-May-14 14:14 -0.16
Horse Racing / Nott 20th May : 6f Mdn Stks 20-May-14 14:00 20-May-14 14:02 -0.24
Pages: 1 2 of 2 Pages

[custard]

I can see as well that ive got a problem in that i struggle to Lay for some reason and pay more attention to the Back side of the ladder.


It's no bad thing and quite natural to prefer to back instead of lay. It's all to do with you wanting to restrict your liability.

Pre-race trading is very difficult these days as the markets move because of many factors. Bots play an active part and amounts are put into the market with a view to causing shifts only to be removed in an instant.

If you had said you had relied on graphs, I would have told you to ditch them. I don't want to resurrect old arguments on this forum and you should do a quick search of the forum to look at previous discussions. I believe that graphs are worthless and only show where a market has been and never show where it is going to go.

Be wary of videos. They often give the impression that pre-race trading is a science and that by learning a few tricks success can be almost guaranteed. Not true.

My best advice is for you to watch as many markets as you can and learn for yourself. Try in-running betting for small stakes, much more fun than pre-race. Also, consider other sports. I've done well on rugby this year. I'll let you into the secret of my success - teams score more points in dry weather than they do when it is pissing down. Who would have thought that a Valley boy could have figured this out for himself ?

Some of us caught on to the fact that Man Utd were rubbish very soon and we made money by laying them.

So, go back to the drawing board and rethink what sports you know best and how you can use your own knowledge to advantage.