Does anyone multiplatform trade?

[outrunred]

Thought I'd ask you pros opinions on this....and maybe an idea for a future development of TT

I often notice a price on Betfair where there is an instantly counter trade on betdaq... ok, maybe not as many as i'd like and often at times of day when there's not as much money floating around....closer to the race they do seem to track each other a bit more

but sometimes when there is that gap I often think about how easy it would be to back on one platform and lay off on the other creating a risk free bet...does anyone do this? Sure, you'll be shifting money around between the 2, but you'd think in the longer term both banks would grow in proportion

That lead me onto the idea that maybe a multiplatform trading tool could complete this trade....autmatically complete the counter trade when a bet is placed?

Am I talking sh!t pile?

Am I brain farting?

[lewismbet]

I am sure someone like the geek with knowledge of the API license can clarify this but I believe there is a prohibition on this by betfair. I had this idea a number of years ago for something automated to monitor both exchange prices but found the consenus was against it. Bear in mind that you will also be paying commission on both bets so you will need to find a decent number of ticks just to break even. If there is a block on it by betfair I am sure there will be work-arounds by splitting the program up to avoid betfair knowing however this would be alot of work.

If anyone has a go - best of luck though.

[Haven't used daq in a while or any products however do they still suffer from large amounts of ghost money floating around the market?]

[rockaren]

I like your idea but dont know if something like this would be possible.
I guess nothing is impossible for a genius programmer like The Geek.
A question is: why is BF so successful and Betdaq NOT ? For us would be so great with more competition.

[1/4 of a millionaire fund]

I'd imagine they'll be lots of linked spreadsheets going for the same money

[lewismbet]

http://www.punters-paradise.com/forums/showthread.php?p=33886

However if someone was to do this...http://www.winholdem.net/antidetect.html they would pay 5% comm on both bets however they would not be paying the premium charge. This could be utilised by people with enough brains and could increase turnover while appearing to lose/win money on betfair and adjust your premium charge payable. I enjoy the challenge of problems like these but have limited programming knowledge so if someone with that knowledge would like to correct me I will be keen to listen.

[outrunred]

ignorance

'scuse my ignorance, i've probably misunderstood.

but why would you have to pay comission on both sides of the trade? don't you only pay commision on a winning bet? seeing as each bet would be placed on seperate exchanges, one bet would win, the other bet would lose.

have I got it wrong

[nigelbleddfa]

You're right. The reason for not implementing your idea is that there is rarely a worthwhile advantage. I looked countless times to see if I could cash in on it when I started betting on exchanges but rarely found anything.
Betfair tends to offer better back prices than Betdaq but not so much better than the Betdaq lay price. There are practical difficulties too. Both bets have to be matched and if one isn't things get dodgy. I tried it and got fed up very quickly.

[lewismbet]

'scuse my ignorance, i've probably misunderstood.

but why would you have to pay comission on both sides of the trade? don't you only pay commision on a winning bet? seeing as each bet would be placed on seperate exchanges, one bet would win, the other bet would lose.

have I got it wrong

Yes I was a little unclear, what I meant was that you are exposed to possible commission on both sides of the bet. This means to determine your real odds you will need to factor 5% off the total of both prices to determine any arbitrage. [I am writing this in a rush and it appears you may be right - so I will wait for someone to give the maths]

I think this would be pointless as a manual tool as the opportunities and liquidity are rare however having a bot which could monitor the markets, particularly in the early stages where the price has not settled would provide opportunities albeit in low liquidity. You now run into the problem of matching a betfair market to a betdaq market - again far from impossible but I would expect difficult as betfair refers to markets as a number and I expect betdaq is the same.

[outrunred]

ahhh - gotchya with regards to the comission....

I have to say, the opportunities aren't as plentiful as we'd all like, guess there'ed already be a tool for this if there was money in it.

But I do see the odd opportunity, but yes, in the early forming market with low liquidity....

ok, scratch that idea....lets formulate a new plan

[lewismbet]

ok, scratch that idea....lets formulate a new plan

ha - I spend most of my days doing this, thinking outside of the box is a constant feeling of discovering the holy grail in the evening and waking to find it has all turned to shit in the cold light of day.

[nigelbleddfa]

Couldn't have expressed it better myself ! In my early days I must have spent three hours every evening with paper, pencil and calculator making new systems. They seemed to get better the more Cabernet Sauvignon I consumed.

[outrunred]

likewise - it was once an obsession of mine.... and not the only one that makes you blind......

[Nero Tulip]

Cross platform access is restricted by Betfair Ts&Cs. I don't think Betdaq have a problem with it - obviously they wouldn't since this is what would bring about a massive influx of liquidity to their exchange. And that's why Betfair prohibit it. It's kind of anti competition and monopolistic - they will do anything to resist the leakage of liquidity and in this case it wouldn't even be leakage - if the same bets were being placed on both exchanges at the same time (not closing them on opposing sides as has been suggested above).

I'd love to be able to post the same bets on both. I might not get matched on Betdaq, but that matters not. The point is healthy competition between exchanges, and that requires liquidity. The barrier to that is time and effort on the part of users to post in both places. The suggestion of cross platform access removes all barriers, and no longer makes offering liquidity in two (or more) places at the same time a laborious task.

Following this, genuine punters would see the same liquidity on both sites and have a genuine choice as to which they would like to use. Choices based upon cost and service - as is the case with most markets. Choices Betfair might in fact lose in a battle under current conditions, given they have liquidity effectively cornered, they can charge what they like.

[Ted]

There's nothing to stop any of us putting up bum prices on Betdaq, can sometimes get matched on illiquid m'kets (plenty to choose from) it's more bother than it's worth, be better employed on BF

Still a few backing with best books then laying on BF, using cash, gets more on, but too much bother for most.

Late breaking info ie sudden going change/surprise team news/tennis player carrying a injury etc is good news on any exchange

[BettingSherlock]

Cross platform access is restricted by Betfair Ts&Cs.

Can someone make this specific for me, i must be missing something.

How would betfair know what bets i place at any other exchange or bookmaker. And what business is it of theirs anyhow. If there truly is such a resitriction in any T&C's it's like saying "if you want to buy bread here you can't buy bread from any other baker anywhere". Ridiculous.

I can see a point if a bookmaker says i'll ban any customer suspected of arbing as that is considered a non-profit activity from the bookies point of view. Betfair on the other hand make money from commission and therefore it is in their interest to generate matched volume, whichever way.

So where exactly does Betfair say i can't bet at betdaq ?