Longest serving trader out there

[bazbaz]

I was wondering about the way BF has changed over the years and how many traders there are now compared to even when I started just a few years ago. Anyone out there been around trading more than 5 years or so? Would be facinating to know what it was like back then

[Thomson]

Old timer trader, well It’s not me, I don’t consider myself a trader as it’s recognised in today’s terms. I do remember the start of the exchange though.
It has to be remembered that in the early days the free bet was an innovation that changed a gamblers view of his position taking.
Given that Betfair had to ‘seed’ the markets you can imagine the discrepancies that would appear. The free bet was what made most appeal. However it wasn’t long before people worked out how to hedge to profit on all outcomes and the markets got tighter.
The next mile stone was the auto refresh gizmo’s on the race page, this made it tighter still and without the gizmo you were out of the game, such is life. The free bets were now small and the trader with his software was just around the corner.
When the software arrived it was still possible to ‘Jump in front’ as A Todd would say in the video but the reality was it was getting harder and turning into a numbers game. Still opportunities to identify overpriced runners but getting fewer and definitely not being laid for the larger amounts.

My hat is off to those that can make a living from today’s markets but I feel we have almost come full circle. In the beginning a gambler could and would trade, whereas now to trade has become a gamble in itself albeit low risk low return.

[Mickey Pearce]

One of my "current" accounts has an inception date of May 2002, but I had an older one than that, now defunct of June 2001. Some of you oldies may remember Flutter, which merged with Betfair circa December 2001, well I was a member there too.

As for changes over the years, well they have been enormous and too many to mention. But it is fair to say it was much easier in those days if you were a decent punter or had a good mathematical brain. (or knew a bit about motorised satellite dishes etc ) Most of the old timers gravitated to Betfair because they could not get on at the bookies to any significant amounts and the coming of the exchanges was a godsend.

It is true that the circle has almost completed it's cycle in a very short space of time really. The ratio of shrewdies to fresh fish has changed dramatically and almost all of the "easy money" has long gone. That's not to say you can't make a decent living out of it, cos lots of us do. It's just that you have to maintain a decent edge and keep it over time, as the exchanges are constantly evolving.

Anyway who can beat May 2002? I'm sure somebody can.

[bazbaz]

Interesting stuff Thomson, you're definately sure betfair seeded the markets? Did they 'trade' them as well? Also, can you remember at what time they became a lot more complicated to trade (i.e. when WOM stopped working and you couldnt just jump infront of the big cash).... I've heard some people talk like the change was overnight which put a lot of traders out of the game instantly, or was it a more gradual thing?

[Thomson]

Market seeding for sure, so I’d say they must have had a presence in the market.
As said I’m not a scalper, so I am only interested in my market that concerns me. One race in two days or four in a day, just what turns up.
My thinking on the wom thing is this……You will have seen this deteriorate as a reliable marker in your 5 years Baz. Reason for me is the teaching guru and use of tick offset.
The guru says use my soft, no racing knowledge needed back here lay here for same money. Use this tool and you can’t go wrong ,run a stop loss easy money awaits. Logic dictates that a weight will only be effective as long as no counter weight is applied, or that may read better as ‘until’ the counter weight is applied. So as the software became widely available and use of automated tools increased to my mind so did the choke effect on some runners.
The software vendor will encourage the ‘move to the next market’ style, this will work for some but the strategy is more for software dependence than profit for the user.

I would say that there seems to be a marked change in market patterns happening now, although I spend less time with Betfair these days so couldn’t speak with authority. Having said that though I suppose that’s to be expected the ‘adapt and overcome’ scenario, the market will evolve and rightly so.

Ironically it would seem I’m saying that the success of trading software may not have killed the goose but it’s cut down the laying somewhat…

[inandout]

I started in June 2002 and making money trading the horses was, fairly, simple then, just my opinion of course. The markets changed dramatically around August 2006, for the way i originally traded at least, making profits harder to come by. You always have to evolve and find new ways to trade as many edges that used to be there are there no longer.

[Torrezno]

I joined BF in June 2007, still in moderat overall profit.

[1/4 of a millionaire fund]

One of my "current" accounts has an inception date of May 2002, but I had an older one than that, now defunct of June 2001. Some of you oldies may remember Flutter, which merged with Betfair circa December 2001, well I was a member there too.

As for changes over the years, well they have been enormous and too many to mention. But it is fair to say it was much easier in those days if you were a decent punter or had a good mathematical brain. (or knew a bit about motorised satellite dishes etc ) Most of the old timers gravitated to Betfair because they could not get on at the bookies to any significant amounts and the coming of the exchanges was a godsend.

It is true that the circle has almost completed it's cycle in a very short space of time really. The ratio of shrewdies to fresh fish has changed dramatically and almost all of the "easy money" has long gone. That's not to say you can't make a decent living out of it, cos lots of us do. It's just that you have to maintain a decent edge and keep it over time, as the exchanges are constantly evolving.

Anyway who can beat May 2002? I'm sure somebody can.

Flutter the good old days Mickey, were you ever active on the flutterboard run by world crossing? My current BF account was from May 2001 never got round to migrating to betfair til late on due to those damn boards

Things have changed so much in those 10 years and there certainly was plenty of easy cash around although not many of us took full advantage and by the time we wised up plenty others had spotted them too.

[inandout]

I wonder how many 'old timers' have given up/moved due to the 250k threshold, let's face it it's less than 20k a year for a lot of early starters.

[Ted]

INANDOUT less than 1% even show a BF profit !

This thread was 2.5 years ago, I imagine if an account is in the green, bigtime, that a few BF employees, row in with the winner on BD....ho ho ho

Is tough to get round the comm now.