Share tips, strategies, ups & downs. - Do we really ?

[PC0845]

Alright guys, the more I trade the more I realise how difficult i can be. Perhaps I'm overcomplicating things (I have that tendency) but I finally realized that there isn't a silver bullet as far as a trading strategy is concerned for me.

The title of this section of the forum is "Traders Exchange Share tips, strategies, ups & downs."

I have to say I don't see any sign of anyone sharing a successful strategy. Perhaps I'm being naive in expecting them to do so, feel free to tell me to "Pog mo on thoin" (Gealic for Kiss my own ****).

Are there any really successful guys here would actually give me and other strugglers and others some of their secrets or no longer used successful methods. It would give us some idea of what we should be looking for when considering entering a market.

Mr Geek for example states he gets bored by trading and really doesn't enjoy doing it (trading I mean) for long periods, I presume a successful trader such as him has more that 1 "strategy" and if you read the now defunct Tin Pot Trader Strategy, we can see it was a departure from his normal activities or methods.

So come on successful guys, please help us no hopes out with actual strategies that can be profitable.

Please Mr geek tell us the strategy you used for Tin Pot Trader ?

I am referring to horseys in my case but I'm sure others may have different markets.

Is this really a place for traders to share their strategies or merely a social forum for traders ?

Hope you can tell from this post how completely frustrated I am, I even swerved trading for 2 days and withdrawn my bank until Wednesday (deposit limits) to consider my approach, and future markets.

I'm convinced it can be done "with little help from my friends" but am really disillusioned by my lack of progress.

[ron]

Its a bit of everything IMO, people will give advice if its asked for, some of us put our thoughts up about racing with various picks/angles etc,

http://www.geekstoy.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4118

People will trade purely pre race, its a simple strategy back high, lay low or the opposite, get out as soon as it goes against you, keeping loses to a minimum, i find this approach very boring, so i tend to read races/form etc and do it in-running, which i find rewards me more so than prerace, but the rules about losses applies as it does to prerace,

People on here will as i said give advice, but if someone has an edge they will not give it away to all.

[theman73]

No , i dont think this is a place for trading strategy , because they are not strategy at all

I'm a newbie with just a few months of trading , me to i blow a few banks , till i realised trading dont have any strategy to learn , all trading is about enter and quit very fast from the market , yes , is thats simple

It dosent mater you win one tick or not , the most important think is to avoid losses , so enter the market and if you are not confident about the direction sell it for 0 profit , zero is not minus

Me personaly i feel beter in to be placed market , i can see how the money are moved , i trade only in the last 2 minutes before the off whend the market is relative stable but allways i wait for oportunity if i can see nothing i dont trade and i move to the next race

The only strategy i test is : i trade only one time per race , whend i see i'm confident and my rate is about 90% win i grow my stake , again if i'm confident , i trade more then once per race

Hoppes my english is not so bad

Market Start time Settled date Profit/loss (€)
Horse Racing / Hunt 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 17:45 26-Jan-11 17:55 0.04
Horse Racing / Muss 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 17:35 26-Jan-11 17:46 0.17
Horse Racing / Ling 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 17:25 26-Jan-11 17:33 0.43
Horse Racing / Hunt 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 17:15 26-Jan-11 17:30 0.25
Horse Racing / Muss 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 17:05 26-Jan-11 17:15 0.86
Horse Racing / Ling 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 16:55 26-Jan-11 17:02 0.21
Horse Racing / Hunt 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 16:45 26-Jan-11 16:56 0.37
Horse Racing / Muss 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 16:35 26-Jan-11 16:47 0.09
Horse Racing / Ling 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 16:25 26-Jan-11 16:32 0.39
Horse Racing / Hunt 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 16:15 26-Jan-11 16:24 0.00
Horse Racing / Muss 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 16:05 26-Jan-11 16:16 0.24
Horse Racing / Ling 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 15:55 26-Jan-11 16:02 0.15
Horse Racing / Hunt 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 15:45 26-Jan-11 15:55 0.49
Horse Racing / Muss 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 15:35 26-Jan-11 15:50 0.51
Horse Racing / Ling 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 15:25 26-Jan-11 15:32 0.65
Horse Racing / Hunt 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 15:15 26-Jan-11 15:25 0.75

[PC0845]

Hoppes my english is not so bad

Market Start time Settled date Profit/loss (€)
Horse Racing / Hunt 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 17:45 26-Jan-11 17:55 0.04
Horse Racing / Muss 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 17:35 26-Jan-11 17:46 0.17
Horse Racing / Ling 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 17:25 26-Jan-11 17:33 0.43
Horse Racing / Hunt 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 17:15 26-Jan-11 17:30 0.25
Horse Racing / Muss 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 17:05 26-Jan-11 17:15 0.86
Horse Racing / Ling 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 16:55 26-Jan-11 17:02 0.21
Horse Racing / Hunt 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 16:45 26-Jan-11 16:56 0.37
Horse Racing / Muss 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 16:35 26-Jan-11 16:47 0.09
Horse Racing / Ling 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 16:25 26-Jan-11 16:32 0.39
Horse Racing / Hunt 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 16:15 26-Jan-11 16:24 0.00
Horse Racing / Muss 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 16:05 26-Jan-11 16:16 0.24
Horse Racing / Ling 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 15:55 26-Jan-11 16:02 0.15
Horse Racing / Hunt 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 15:45 26-Jan-11 15:55 0.49
Horse Racing / Muss 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 15:35 26-Jan-11 15:50 0.51
Horse Racing / Ling 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 15:25 26-Jan-11 15:32 0.65
Horse Racing / Hunt 26th Jan : To Be Placed 26-Jan-11 15:15 26-Jan-11 15:25 0.75

Your English is probably better than mine, but your strike rate is astonishing. I'm presuming you use small stakes but why do you think you need a 90% strike rate ?

Surely profitability is a factor of the Average Loss and Average winnings, and if you can keep your average loss amount lower than your average profit amounts profits even 50% strike rate would result in profitability ?

[theman73]

yes why 90% , is just because i have scope now , to breach this barrier every day and yes my stake are low , i'm in a testing mode so i prefer low stake and my confidence grow up every day , after a while if i see i'm doing correct what i do now i will go to the win market

Horse Racing / Fake 30th Jan : To Be Placed 30-Jan-11 16:25 30-Jan-11 16:31 0.19
Horse Racing / Kemp 30th Jan : To Be Placed 30-Jan-11 16:15 30-Jan-11 16:25 0.20
Horse Racing / Here 30th Jan : To Be Placed 30-Jan-11 16:05 30-Jan-11 16:14 0.44
Horse Racing / Fake 30th Jan : To Be Placed 30-Jan-11 15:55 30-Jan-11 16:02 0.39
Horse Racing / Kemp 30th Jan : To Be Placed 30-Jan-11 15:45 30-Jan-11 15:51 0.06
Horse Racing / Here 30th Jan : To Be Placed 30-Jan-11 15:35 30-Jan-11 15:43 0.45

[kawasaki]

why you are so frustrated, maybe because reality dont met your expectancions? you seen heatchkote making thousands $$$ a day and you thought there are golden mine and you will be riding ferrari in no time?

welcome to reality my friend, trading may be one of hardest jobs to master, people with doctor degrees and law education, smartest of smartasses of all countrys tryes to catch fortune by the tail, but they fail, why?

maybe there are no tail at all?

i dont know actually. i can speak only from my own experience of course, i am not smartarse at all, i dont have waste databases and cant program neural network sofware, and though i make some money here but i am not shure if this is profitable long term.

i tell you why: market is constantly changing, ''systems'' which worked yesterday, today may be recipe for disaster, famous example footie lay draw, there are ole pirates who remember times when you can lay almost any draw and make easy money, now this not working, why?

i can tell my own experience on dogs. when i began trading dogs, i done simple thing: i tryed to lay biggest underdog as low as possible. simple as that. just lay any underdog and wait till price comes up. from initial minimal 15eur deposit i began trading with 0.2 - 0.5 eur stakes, i managed with this strategy to build up my bank up to 65eur. sometimes people just took any price available, take my lay at price 7 then in couple minutes price jumps to 14, that was mindblowing. i was wondering ''it cant be so simple, can it?'' and shure, it not lasted long, some day come a disaster, seems market learned lesson and every time i layed underdog, my stake was not taken or prices just come down. i tryed many things on dogs so far, like jumping on big move and trying to pinch tick or two, trying to fill in gaps, many things. and seen one main principle there: market learns. i am not only one geniuse here (), there are much smarter traders than me, and they learn lessons too. actually i find dogs market very good for novice traders to begin with, because there you can see and learn very principles of market, how it behaves, how develops, grows and gets old various tactics and strategys. and i learned main rule here: market changes. there are no ''strategy'' you can tell someone and they repeat this too and make money forever. if you make money, someone loses it. and if he lose, he of course not waits till lose all bank, he tryes to change something, learn from mistakes. and here it is, your strategy not works anymore.

as for sports, i assume you can make money only if you know whats going on at the moment, if teams playing are priced correctly or if they are overpriced, if they play as planned or are in bad mood and better leave this match alone, you can pinch ticks here and there if you know whats going on, if you just jump in and hope for luck, thats not for long, you be even more desperate, thats for shure. however i am not big expert in this field, i know nothing about sports and everytime i try trade there, seems its just guessing game, i better leave it for time being. seems there are no holy grail working systems too, just good knowledge of sport can help you. every match is different, no magic formulas you can apply there and make shitloads of money

for me its simple as that: watch market every day, learn its behaviours, think, try to outsmart your enemy. its like sniper: sit still, learn enemys behaviour, wait for a moment, boom. change position because now enemy knows where you are and he dont play games with you, he sends all his heavy artilery on your head.

and yes, loose your desperate mood, desperado its cool to watch on the movie, but its worst advisor in real life, you must be coldblooded plan-everything-ahead killer to win this battle, not desperate cowboy, who wins not because he planned but because he got lucky.

thats for my philosophy, sorry if its messy, i sometimes find it difficult express what i think in clear english.



and yes, i dont tell you where i am hiding now, because of course you then come and kill me in no time, noooo wayyy, i do not wish suicide yet

[Mickey Pearce]

The above post should be framed and posted for posterity.

All frustrated noobs should read it and digest what they can from it.

Although it may be lacking in eloquent prose, it contains a treasure of titbits for any aspiring trader.

Well done kawasaki, I add my thanks without hesitation.

[Quo]

The above post should be framed and posted for posterity.

All frustrated noobs should read it and digest what they can from it.

Although it may be lacking in eloquent prose, it contains a treasure of titbits for any aspiring trader.

Well done kawasaki, I add my thanks without hesitation.

.....here here !

My thoughts exactly, especially for a non native English speaker, I know how hard it is to create decent sentences that are readable for 'The Brits', and at the same time creating the nuances you want the message to carry across.

I think people should hit the 'Thank You' button more often to appreciate the effort!

[neeeel]

Having been trading for over 3 years now, and been through what you are going through, only to reach a point where I am generally a profitable trader, its only small amounts, and I have come to the conclusion, which was hard to accept, that I am probably never going to make my living from being a trader.

What I wanted to say was that even if someone was generous enough to tell you their system or strategy for trading pre race horse markets, it is no guarantee that you would suddenly( if at all) start to make a profit. You could tell 2 people a strategy, tell them to go off and do it for 2 weeks, and compare the results. You can almost guarantee that the results will be different. This is because trading is very subjective and personal. Say the strategy is "Lay the low points on the favorite". There will be debate about where the low points are. What happens when it goes against you, do you get out for 1, 2 or 3 tick loss, or hold on and see if it comes back? If you do manage to identify a low point, do you have the balls to put in another trade after your last 4 trades were losing ones? Or do you hesitate and fail, or lose focus completely and start throwing in trades for the hell of it, or because you wrongly identified a low point, or because you feel like "**** it, I dont care any more"

I have been on trading courses, had mentors visit my house and "show" me how to trade, spoken to various different traders and had help and advice from them. Although the traders advice helped a bit, it was down to me to put in the time in the markets, try out what I had seen and what I had been told, and find out the various different problems as I come across them. The course and the mentor time was a waste, not just because of them, but because of me as well.
There is no substitute for time in the markets. As well as finding out how the markets work, you also find out how you work. Can you keep taking a 2 tick loss, market after market, idefinitely? How do you feel and react when the market suddenly goes against you and you are looking at a loss equal to 3 days earnings? etc etc etc

I have no doubt that if you could have someone stand over your shoulder for a period of time, months probably, and tell you what your mistakes were and how to identify good entry points, this would help a lot. This is not going to happen tho. Some people are naturally good at trading Most arent, and take months or years of practice to get anywhere

[muppets]

sorry if i'm mean, but a strategy works for chess, or other games.

THIS IS GAMBLING. Gambling on sport events where if the outcome would be known there wouldn't be any gambling, or even sports. for soccer/football have you ever played it, my team was 2 goals leading and then in the last two minutes lost by one goal. its unpredictable(aka in-play). For pre-race there are some guys who back, and others that lay, they don't really know whats going to happen they just hope, traders included. the successful ones lose less than the others, that's why their good at it. I have a strike rate of about 85%(pre and in play), but not in profit, why???
i lose more that i win.
and ones "strategy" may not work for you, or anyone else, why? because he has certain 'facts that back him up' he could be right 40% of the time but only enter a trade 1 occasion in 20, making him some profit. but if you use his strategy and use it every occasion you may end up losing and you would say it doesn't work at all, when it doesn't work just for you.
sorry but if you are not good at it, try something else, another sport, other indicators or even quit. if you lose money, real money its not good.
some say they can do it. statistics says 5% can(or less). if you can identify a way that can be profitable use it, make sure it stays profitable if not change it.
the "Tin pot trader" is a way of limiting your losses (he only was going to risk 250). not sure of what he was going to make or lose.
the fact is it's not constant income, it can be o lose. if you lose to much i say stop. if you win keep it up.
good luck finding you edge, if you do. bur if you don't why lose your money?

[nigelbleddfa]

The chances are, if these people did not lose their money by trading, they would find other ways of losing it

[Caan Berry]

Can only reinforce what kawa and neeel have both already said, having a winning strategy is one thing executing it time nd time again is a whole new ball game mate.... i think half the 'edge' everybody talks about is not a strategy or system but a frame of mind that successful traders employ... stop looking for something thats not there (an edge) the only way to learn is to watch thousands of markets and use stakes that you really are comfortable with... just remember all the really good guys that make loads have been doing this some time more often than not. Also the markets are constantly evolving much like kawa said... the last few weeks i've had to change my aproach as things are different

Good luck!

[PC0845]

Wow, didn't expect such a response when I started the thread. Reading the original post I realize how whingy and pathetic it reads.

I do realize ( ands always did) we have got to find our own way and Nigel's comment about finding other ways of losing money is particularly pertinent.

Kawasaki, your reply is the forum equivalent of a kick up the arse for me and having re read it numerous times I can sense your frustrations with the simplistic out I was looking for. Some self analysis is required because my original post (had it been written by somebody else, I would have found it quite ridiculous) and although the eloquence of certain replies can be questioned, the truth and advice contained therein cannot be ignored.

I have been mentally banging my head against the wall and now I can add a kick up the arse to the self inflicted (all totally warranted) misery. :Naughty

Thanks for taking the time to reply lads, and any other advice will be gratefully accepted.

[mark]

As has already been said in a matter of words. Research markets, gain as much knowledge as possible, watch the markets and then keep doing it until you feel you have an understanding of them and how they will react under certain circumstances. This in turn will boost confidence. Dont be afraid of losses sometimes to cut out of a market and limit the losses is a sign of progression instead of sitting there fingers crossed and hope the market comes back the direction you want it to. In time hopefully you start seeing good entry points.

[flok]

this is my suggestions to all beginners: read this thread, i think it's always the best

http://www.geekstoy.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1589